Law Professor: "Shameful to support men and women who have gone overseas to kill other human beings."

 
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Law Professor: "Shameful to support men and women who have gone overseas to kill other human beings."

Whenever people ask me why I initially quit law school to volunteer to go to Afghanistan as an Infantryman, I only half-jokingly tell them I preferred sleeping on the ground and looking for the Taliban to being around the pretentious jackasses one finds at law schools from time to time.  When I got back, the first article I read in the Law School newsletter was about how the first year of law school is the hardest year anyone could ever have,  Well sure, except almost every year that our men and women spend in the military.  In law school you generally get fed fairly regularly, don't get shot at, and don't have to pull radio guard at 2 a,m,  This isn't exactly a newsflash, but there is nothing inherently difficult about attending classes and reading books.  I'm not saying that to degrade higher education, but comparing it to dodging 7.62 rounds is a bit....hyperbolic.

And then along comes someone who proves my point with far more alacrity than I could muster on my own.  Everyone, meet Professor Michael Avery:

The email may have been brief, but with it Suffolk Law Professor Michael Avery seems to have poured salt into the wounds of quite a few Americans, including some students at his own school.

In the five-paragraph e-mail to colleagues in response to a school-wide appeal for care packages for deployed soldiers, Avery calls the notion of sending packages “shameful”.

"I think it is shameful that it is perceived as legitimate to solicit in an academic institution for support for men and women who have gone overseas to kill other human beings" wrote Avery.

 

Local professor: Collecting care packages for troops is 'shameful': MyFoxBOSTON.com

For some more on this guy, you can go to the "Above the Law" blog where the writer just skewers this clown.

Somewhat ironically, the very first person to wish me a Happy Veterans Day was a buddy of mine who just happens to be a Suffolk Law Graduate.  The school is going with the old stand-by of "he has a right to say what he wants."

In the long history of Suffolk University, we have embraced discourse within the framework of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We encourage free discussion; yet remain uncompromising in confronting acts of discrimination. As Suffolk's history shows, all of this can be done while supporting our mission to provide access to excellence in education to those who deserve it, not the least of whom are active duty military personnel and returning veterans, who by their brave acts have honored each of us and our nation.

Indubitably true. He also has the right to pee on an electric fence or inhale Clorox, but it doesn't make it either sensible or reflect well on the schook.

The whole thing did segue nicely with an article in the Washington Post this morning though:

The troops are lavished with praise for their sacrifices. But the praise comes with a price, service members say. The public increasingly acts as if it feels sorry for those in uniform.

“We aren’t victims at all,” said Brig. Gen. Sean B. MacFarland, who commanded troops in Iraq and will soon leave for Afghanistan. “But it seems that the only way that some can be supportive is to cast us in the role of hapless souls.”

The topic is a sensitive one for military leaders, who do not want to appear ungrateful or at odds with the public they serve. They also realize that the anger that returning troops faced in the latter years of the Vietnam War was far worse.

As a result, most of the conversations about pity take place quietly and privately among combat veterans. After his two sons returned from combat tours with the Marines, retired Col. Mark Cancian warned them that people outside the military would view their service from two perspectives.

All things being equal, if I had to chose between being back in law school, being pitied for my service in the military, or serving as an infantryman again, the choice would be easy, and I would be singing this diddy tomorrow as the sun set:

Up in the morning out of the rack
Greeted at dawn with an early attack

First Sergeant Rushes me off to chow
But I don’t eat it any how

Oh hail Oh Hail oh Infantry
Queen of Battle follow me

An airborne ranger’s life for me
Cause nothing in this world is free

Pick up your rifle and follow me.

In a big bird up in the sky,
all will jump and some will die

Off to battle we will go,
to live or die, hell I don’t know

Oh hail oh hail oh infantry
Queen of battle follow me

I look to the sky I have no fear,
My Ranger God is always near.

Oh hail Oh hail oh infantry
Queen of battle follow me

Posted in the burner | 324 comments
 
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Comments

This guy should retract his comments and apologize or be fired immediately. SOB's like him do not belong in positions of responsibility. How come that somebody so educated knows so little? He should know that soldiers follow orders. If he wants somebody to blame for any conflicts he doesn't like, the word politician comes to mind. He must feel very secure in his lofty castle and maybe does not believe that many people would gladly cut his throat for what he makes in one hour. Idiot is too kind a word for his kind.

WHERE did they find this mook? Has the learned Professor forgotten that it is through the actions of those brave souls he so readily denigrates that he's allowed to spew his diatribe and vitriol? Perhaps he should pick up a weapon and walk a patrol route. THEN he might, thought still very doubtful, possibly change his tune.

This law professor (an oxymoron?) must never have been a criminal lawyer. How else justify his statement about soldiers at war - that people get injured and killed in war is no revelation. Nor is it a revelation that defendents in criminal law end up dying on a gurney or spending their lives rotting in prison. He speaks as if the University were some hallowed place above all the strife of real life. In Nazi Germany it was the universities, and their professors, who failed to stand up and be counted when the government removed their fellow professors who happened to be Jews. And it was these same hallowed halls that produced the German judges who failed to act against the Nuremberg Laws of 1935. He needs to reexamine his position.

This law professor (an oxymoron?) must never have been a criminal lawyer. How else justify his statement about soldiers at war - that people get injured and killed in war is no revelation. Nor is it a revelation that defendents in criminal law end up dying on a gurney or spending their lives rotting in prison. He speaks as if the University were some hallowed place above all the strife of real life. In Nazi Germany it was the universities, and their professors, who failed to stand up and be counted when the government removed their fellow professors who happened to be Jews. And it was these same hallowed halls that produced the German judges who failed to act against the Nuremberg Laws of 1935. He needs to reexamine his position.

The best thing that could happen to you is being kicked out of an aircraft at 10,000 feet, with a paracute, over the mountains in Taliban country. Since you're a pussy, there is no point in giving you a weapon. With magnificant luck you may land among friendly troops, most likely you won't. We probably should have dumped you over a sand pile in the desert because your sorry ass likely won't survive a landing in the mountains. If, and when you are returned to the U.S.; we would like to again discuss your position on care packages for the troops!

A man so educated and yet, so ignorant. No doubt, he's pandering to his left-wing constituents.

Please don't i include all law professors. I am an adj. professor for 31 years at Temple law school, love giving back to students and encourage free speech. I am most proud of my military service, and that of all of our uniformed men and women who serve so proudly, in defending our freedoms. Give back to many military organizations; serve on the Armes Services Council, and wear proudly our nation's flag in my lapel every day, especially when I am teaching.

This professor needs to get a life or is just looking for his 15 minutes of fame. My bet is he never served his country and would run if asked. After serving 3.5 tours of duty, I am proud to say "I love America". It is the land of the free and the home of the brave. Myself and many others have made this happen. This professor does not know how lucky he is. Ship him to some 3rd world country that looks at freedom of speech as a way of getting your to tongue cut out. God bless America for our great freedom but if you have nothing nice to say, just shut the h..l up!

AMEN! AMEN TO ALL!

I cannot support the statement that do not send care packages. It is important to keep up the moral of the troops. We want them to come home with at least some memories that just might make them smile. I will not support the war but I will always support the warrior.

Right - lets bring the troops home, then the bad guys can come here and kill the professor as their right. Amazing how many people in this country enjoy free speech and voice their protests about military actions, yet it has been the military actions, starting with the Revolutionary war that has provided, and assured them, those rights.

Apparently this well-educated man was never an eighteen year old soldier serving overseas -scared, lonely and home sick. Every care package that I received (and those I currently send) are welcome little pieces of home. Perhaps he should take a little trip this holiday season.

Apparently this well-educated man was never an eighteen year old soldier serving overseas -scared, lonely and home sick. Every care package that I received (and those I currently send) are welcome little pieces of home. Perhaps he should take a little trip this holiday season.

Apparently this well-educated man was never an eighteen year old soldier serving overseas -scared, lonely and home sick. Every care package that I received (and those I currently send) are welcome little pieces of home. Perhaps he should take a little trip this holiday season.

As a Viet nam veteran and a former staff member at Cornell University, I am appalled Avery's statements.

One certainly has the right to condemn war but not the men and women who are required to carry out their duties and responsibilities to the government.

Patrick Tooman

WE KILL PEOPLE...WHO KILL PEOPLE.....BECAUSE KILLING PEOPLE IS WRONG. F THIS IDIOT !!!!

I suppose you believe that killing in general is wrong. Well, you would not be here if is wasn't for the fact that many people lost their lives over the years in many wars and conflicts. You received an education and the right to speak freely in this great nation because of the sacrifice of so many brave military people. It is not easy for them to kill, however, they must do so to protect. If someone came into your home to rape your wife or to hurt your family, would you not want to kill them? Would you not protect your own family? So think about what you are saying before you say it, please. Consider all the information before spewing out garbage.

The professor doesn't understand the law and custom of military service. Soldiers have no choice but to obey orders. However, this may not be the case for their officers under some conditions. In any event much killing of the enemy is justified as "self defense." Under the law, ifn you fear for your life or of suffering great harm, you may kill the person you reasonably fear that he/she was armed. Further, even if after the event, it is determined that the dead person wasn't armed the killer is still not guilty of a crime because he hadn't formed an evil intent in his mind.

My goodness - he tarnishes the military and higher education -

Roy Strausbaugh - former USN and professor

This ignorant individual seems to want the attitude of the 1970s to come back, including spitting on the troops as they come home. If he used Suffolk University’s computer system to make this statement he IS speaking for Suffolk University. I’m not sure if this is a state college or not, but if it is someone in the state’s legislature needs to see if he can go to a country he likes better. Cuba comes to mind….

I wrote a letter to Suffolk Law explaining, as a veteran with a serving son I would try to discourage anyone I could influence from attending there, as long as Avery has teaching influence on any students. Hopefully this is of some influence on others.

I think it's SHAMEFUL that this "guy" even gets any press. These are young men and women who are performing a patriotic duty - working in a difficult environment to support OUR country. They are putting their lives on the line for our country, even including this Law Professor. They may not, and probably do not support killing but are doing a job that THIS COUNTRY assigned.

I say BRAVO for those that serve and support the initiatives of the United States. I don't always agree with these initiatives, however the service people are performing a duty to assure many of the freedoms and the safety of all citizens. They should be PRAISED / NOT SHAMED!

Since we fought and others continue to fight for our rights including free speech, it's disengenuos to attack him for his views. Another words, let the moron speak. He simply isn't worth the time it takes to listen.

Interesting that the professor decries the military but not the militants who commandeered civilian aircraft full of fuel to burn civilians to death and destroy buildings while killing civilian first responders.

This guy is a little bitch. Now he's a famous little bitch. ...just my opinion...exercising my 1st amendment rights. I hope he gets hit by a truck.

It is a known fact that there is no limit nor known cure for Stupid, never has been never will!

The only thing shameful here is you, you SOB!

I will not insult morons by comparing them to Michael Avery!!!

He thinks it shameful to send care packages to servicemembers because they are "killers". How about sending care packages to soldiers because they are ambassadors of good will in foreign countries? Does this "academic" (used loosely, because academic should really apply to an open minded person who looks at ALL angles of an issue) realize how much of these care packages actually wind up in the hands of the people that the servicemembers are allegedly attempting to kill. I rdie a motorcycle and I wear a patch on my vest that says Iraq Veteran: If you weren't there, keep your mouth shut. Let this academic take the advice of my patch. A person who hasn't spent a day in uniform that actively balks about caring for servicemembers that fight for the right for you to balk should keep his stupidity to himself.

You are speaking and writing English because some of killed Germans an Japs during WWll. No one likes to kill someone, but we were forced to do in 1941-1945. If you had seen the Death Camps in Germany I think you would have liked to have killed some of the Germans.

Hey MF (and I don't mean My Friend),
We don't go over there to kill other human beings, per se. We go over there to stop them from killing you and your domestic partner, and your mothers and sisters.

The concept of "Rule of Law" is an incredible advance in human affairs. History is rife with the disasters of rule by a means other than law, and law which the people can change as may be useful to their society. So where does this guy think this advance came from? Does he think it was handed down as a free gift, and all the tyrants of the world just said, "Oh, cool!"? No, it was a long and bloody slog to achieve "Rule of Law", and unfortunately, keeping it without more fighting is unlikely.

Also, as I remember my oath, it was not about fighting or killing or any such thing. It was "... to support and defend the Constitution ...".

Finally, I graduated from law school with honors, and I went at night while holding down a full-time job. It was no picnic, but it wasn't really THAT hard. I'd say it was about the same as Navy boot camp.

AMEN!!!!! HEY PROFFESSOR FREEDOM ISNT FREE! I BLED FOR YOUR DUMB ASS TO HAVE YOUR FREE SPEECH

well i feel better knowing that i paid in blood so you can have free speech! Jackass

People....his title says it all.....LAWYER!!!!!!...Dime a dozen...and dont' know reality. Probably a momma boy.

99% of lawyers are "professional"LIARS how many friends did you lose,ever had a brother in arms die inyour arms you punk piece of shit.."FUCK" OFF.go somewhere n die.the world will be better

I think we need to send this guy over to Afganistan and let him tell the troops to there face what he says in this story.

Pure and simple, the professor is an asshole, and should be treated as such: he should be wiped and flushed. I know whereof I speak (check out my name).

If it were not for the soldier going over seas to kill other people this law professor could be digging ditches in some concentration camp....like theybdid in Nazi Germany....

I think it should be noted that Suffolk Law School is basically a joke anyway. This is a 4th Tier Law School (There are 4 tiers, 4th being the bottom of the barrel). This law school is barley even accredited and not really the type of law school that is relevant. I would encourage anybody thinking about attending law school to not attend this school.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/third-fourth-tier.html

Additionally, if you look at this Professors biography it is obvious he is a joke also. If you look at the organizations he is involved in and the law school he teaches at it is apparent that he is irrelevant, this is probably the only time in his life anyone has ever paid any attention to what he said.

http://www.law.suffolk.edu/faculty/directories/faculty.cfm?InstructorID=2

Outstanding comment.

This really should be no surprise to anyone who has looked at his bio on the school web site. He attended Moscow Universitty USSR in 68/69. In otherwords he went to school with folks who were actively supporting the killing of US servicement in Viet Nam. It's a darn shame he just didn't stay in that workers paradise.

Why has the American Legion taken
Millions in advertising dollars for ads for
Mesothelioma attorney- yet has never supported
A ban on asbestos I
The only known cause of deadly mesothelioma
Cancer- 1/3 of all victims former Military
Proud to be American men & women.
A am a veteran 1967-1969
Www.actionagainstabestos.com
Larry Davis Proud Veteran

Avery's bio has this interesting element: "BA, LLB, Yale University; attended University of Moscow, U.S.S.R. 1968-1969." This answers the question, "What did you do during the (Vietnam) War, Daddy?" More recently, the bio reveals he was president of the National Lawyers Guild, which thinks attorney Lynne Stewart was justified in her substantive connivance with her terrorist clients' ongoing operations against the USA. Does it even occur to this hack that his own statements are political subversions of the university's mission of academic freedom and diversity of views; that he is guilty of exactly what he complains of in others, whose much more neutral and benign actions he opposes? The usual double standard of the hypocrits of self-defined moral superiority.

Why hasn't the Legion supported a ban
On asbestos in the USA?
Making to much money from asbestos lawyers
Advertising in Legion Magazine - 1/3 of
all mesothelioma deaths each year are former
Military

As a Viet Nam Air Force Veteran (1966-1970), I hold my head high for doing my part to protect American Freedom. I didn't agree with the "war", but served my country anyway and am proud of my service more and more each year. I never pass an opportunity to say "Thank you for your service" to an active duty service man or woman when I'm in their presence....they deserve no less than that from all Americans. My dad gave me the extra money to fly regular coach instead of military which required wearing my uniform because of the jeeres and name calls I received at O'Hear Airport in Chicago when stopping over on my way home on leave...that troubled me...be angry at the government, but not at those serving.

This professor is not much of a man, in fact, he's not much of anything and certainly not much of an American. I too say "Move somewhere else if you don't like it here and can't be proud of our military."

To all you who have served and to those of you who are serving..."Thank you, with all my heart...I am so very proud of you."

Hypocrisy: Suffolk U Law School says they believe everybody should have the right to say anything they want. They therefore claim the professor has the right to say that other people don't have a right to ask for donations for something they believe in.

Ironically, the professor’s and the school’s stand on the issue will probably cause more donations to that particular group of students for their care packages for the troops.

This "highly educated" idiot, needs to go up to each and every Veteran, both Past & Present; and say;
"Thank You for allowing me to have the Right to say such Stupid statements for all Americans to read" !! !!! !!!!

My feelings are this individual needs to be taken to a place where our troops are and deposited. Let life happen to him and if he survives, ask if he has had any change of heart.

I'm a lawyer - and a former JAG Officer as a matter of fact - and comments like these make me ashamed of my profession!

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News from the World of Military and Veterans Issues. Iraq and A-Stan in parenthesis reflects that the author is currently deployed to that theater.