Pledge under legal fire once again

 
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Pledge under legal fire once again

I really don't want to do this story, because the courts have decided it on innumerable occasions, and every time I write about the American Humanist Association I get a ton of hate mail.  But look around, it's not a particularly vibrant day for veterans related news, so you get this story, which seems to be about the 150th on a related subject.

From The Asbury Park (N.J.) Press:

 A family is suing the Matawan-Aberdeen Regional School District and its superintendent, seeking to have the phrase "under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiancethat students recite every day.

A lawsuit filed in Superior Court in Monmouth County on behalf of the family, who wish to remain unidentified, and the American Humanist Association claims that the practice of acknowledging God in the pledge of allegiance discriminates against atheists, in violation of New Jersey's constitution.

But the school district's attorney says the district is simply following a state law that requires pupils to recite the Pledge of Allegiance daily.

You can almost feel the exasperation of the attorney in this quote:

"All we are doing is abiding by requirements of state law, we and approximately 590 other school districts in the state," said the attorney, David Rubin, to whom Schools Superintendent David M. Healy referred questions about the lawsuit.

"If the group who's brought this lawsuit questions the wisdom of that policy or the legality of it, we believe their arguments are much better directed to the state Legislature who's imposed this requirement on us, rather than suing an individual school district on this matter," Rubin said.

So here we go again.  This suit will not only fail, but it will cost the local school district (and the American Humanist Association) a ton of money in legal fees, to reach a conclusion that has already been reached across the country.  It's like a "Lawyer Protection Plan" since the only people that will gain from this are attorneys.

Just how settled is the law in this regards?  Well, even Wiki has a good list:

On March 11, 2010, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit upheld the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance in the case of Newdow v. Rio Linda Union School District.[38][39] In a 2–1 decision, the appellate court ruled that the words were of a "ceremonial and patriotic nature" and did not constitute an establishment of religion.[38] Judge Stephen Reinhardt dissented, writing that "the state-directed, teacher-led daily recitation in public schools of the amended 'under God' version of the Pledge of Allegiance... violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution."[40]

On November 12, 2010, in a unanimous decision,[41] the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in Boston affirmed a ruling by a New Hampshire lower federal court which found that the pledge's reference to God does not violate non-pledging students' rights if student participation in the pledge is voluntary.[42] A United States Supreme Court appeal of this decision was denied on June 13, 2011.[43][44]

So, in an attempt to represent one child who apparently isn't content to stand there silently, these groups will sue, lose, cost taxpayer money in a venue that isn't the proper one, and walk away no better or worse off than they were.  But hey, it must be great PR for them.

Posted in the burner | 119 comments
 
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How many atheist hypocrites use phrases like, "God damn it", Jesus Holy Christ, O my God, Christ on a crutch, Holy Jesus, and all the rest which have by now come to the forefront of our minds? Notice how many names are used in these phrases? Why only Jesus? How about Muhammad or Buddha on a crutch? How about Dali Holy Llama? Saturn H Mars? Atheist, I suggest, before you try to "clean up my right to speak freely", that YOU police your own mouth first. 'Nuff said?

CHARLES, Y0U FUNNY! A CHRISTIAN TALKING ABOUT OTHERS BEING HYPOCRITES. ARE YOU NOT SUPPOSED TO "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR" AND "TURN THE OTHER CHEEK"? ATHEISTS WHO SAY THOSE THINGS DO SO AS THEY WERE PROGRAMMED TO BE A RELIGIOUS BELIEVERS (MOST PROBABLY CHRISTIANS) AND THEY HAVE NOT YET FULLY DE-PROGRAMMED THEMSELVES!

ATHEISTS WHO SAY THOSE THINGS DO SO AS THEY WERE PROGRAMMED TO BE A RELIGIOUS BELIEVERS (MOST PROBABLY CHRISTIANS) AND THEY HAVE NOT YET FULLY DE-PROGRAMMED THEMSELVES!

THANKFULLY, THERE ARE MANY. MANY MILLIONS OF FORMER CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DE-PROGRAMMED THEMSELVES AND ARE NOW ATHEISTS! YEP, OUR RANKS AND THE NUMBER OF ATHEIST ORGANIZATIONS ARE GROWING MANY TIMES FASTER THAN EVER BEFORE!!!.

When I was in grade school the words "under God" was not in the pledge. By the time I got into middle school those words were added. The students that did not believe in God were told that they did not have to say those words. We also recited The Lords Prayer" and those students were told that they did not have to say the prayer but, bow their heads and recite their own prayer. This arrangement worked out fine. We got to say ours, they got tosay theirs and no one attempted to take away the rights of each other. Now we have a small amount of "Latte Liberal atheist hypocrites that want to take away the rights of others to build their egos. Let me tell you. I retired with 30 years in the Army and every body prays to someone when the shells are flying over the foxholes! I heard atheists suddenly find God when the foxhold was becomming the impact area.

John - I agree 100%. When I served in Vietnam, the saying was there are no atheist in the foxholes.

Another: as long as there are test in public schools, there will be prayer in public schools!!!

Thanks for your service and welcome home!

SO JOHN, HOW FINE WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR YOU IF THE GOD THEY WERE REFERRING TO WAS ALLAH?

AND WHAT OF, INSTEAD\OF THE LORDS PRAYER, IT WAS A PRAYER THE MANY GODS OF THE HINDUS?

WOULD THAT STILL HAVE "WORKED OUT FINE" FOR YOU?

AND FYI CHILD, IT IS YOU FRACKING \SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE CHRISTIANS WHO WANT TO PUSH YOUR CHILDISH BULL SHIT RELIGION ON OTHERS!

LAST, THIS PARATROOPER (ONCE ONE - ALWAYS ONE) AND FORMER DEEP SEA DIVER, MOUNTAIN CLIMBER, BUNGEE JUMPING, FIRE WALKING SPELUNKING, RIVER RUNNING LIFE GUARDING., BOUNCER HAS BEEN NEARLY KILLED QUICKLY MANY TIMES AND DAMN NEAR DIED SLOWLY AT LEAST THREE TIMES. NOT ONCE HAVE I EVER EVEN THOUGHT OF ASKING ANY GOD FOR ANY HELP, MUCH LESS ACTUALLY DOING SO!

SO WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD ABOUT ATHEISTS IS AS MUCH BULL SHJIT AS YOUR CHILDISH RELIGION IS!

\

Please leave GOD in, I can't remember it not being threr. I'm 76 yo. A Navy veteran. A believer in The Almighty God. When the ones that don't want it in. They can recite it and leave GOD out but not ME. When they finally meet HIM, they will BELIEVE. TY for letting me have my say.

I agree that this suit is nothing but a waste of money, because the State of NJ requires them to say the pledge every morning, and only Congress can change the Pledge of Allegiance.

That said, the pledge did contain the words "under God" until the 1950s, when Congress added "God" to the pledge and to our paper currency, out of panic over the "Godless Communists".

This country is supposed to be secular and accepting of all. It would be easy enough to return to the pledge of WWII, without God, which would satisfy all of those who do not believe in the Christian God, (which goes far beyond just Atheists) while taking nothing away from those who do.

This country was founded principally by Christians. The establishment clause of the constitution prohibits the establishment of a religion. The words under God do not establish a religion within the meaning and understanding of those words. Nor should there be an establishment of an Atheistic system of anti religion. Citizens were encouraged to pray. Our forefathers used religious references frequently in their documents, in the Bill of Rights and our constitution and other writings. This is a frivolous lawsuit and it would appear that sanctions should be prayed for by the school district for bringing such a suit. Maybe gthwe suits would cease if a Court awarded serious penalties for filing such suits in which the law has been well settled by the nation's highest Court.

I agree with Jon Morrow. The "under God" was added in the early 1950s by legislators panicked about the 'Red Scare". Well, that scare is long gone, as is Sen. Joe Macarthy, its instigator. I'd like to see the pledge changed back to its earlier version too.

What's more important to keep "Under God" in or to finally have the Pledge of Allegiance back in ALL schools. Ever since it was added, there has been issues. We are supposed to have a division between church and state after all. Put it back the way it was before a pandering congress screwed with it. After all, what is most important is the patriotic sentiment not the religious accommodation. I don't think that God will mind.

The words "under God" were added by the U.S. Congress in 1954. If they want to sue anybody then let them sue Congress and not some poor school district. Congress can change it back at any time if they have the guts. I doubt it. Say it any way you want to, but say it. My opinion only.

It would make more sense for the people who do not believe in those words or sentiment, to simply not repeat it ... just go on reciting without the phrase ... I'm sure there are more people who believe and prefer to use the phrase than there are who are opposed to it.

No one should have to choose between either staying true to their spiritual belief or expressing allegiance to the nation they love. The original pledge (without the words "under God") allowed all of us to freely recite our pledge of allegiance to country and to each other, unedited and regardless of our religious differences. The Legion leadership's decision to take sides in this fight is misguided and wastes resources that could be better spent helping veterans and supporting values that unite us.

I don't agree that people should be able to opt out of saying "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. This Country is run by majority rule, like the House and Senate, and with over 90% of the US following Judeo/Christian belief in God, then the majority should rule. It should not be right that one or two people or small groups hold the rest of the Country hostage while they should be free to express their views, but can't just take God, Christ, and Religion out of everything. If you don't like it, tough! If you don't believe in God, feel free to say so, but don't expect the 90% to kowtow to whatever you think or believe. That is not the right thing to do and they know it. Majority rule should apply. If you don't want to say the Pledge, get out of My Country and find another Country, like Russia, that has very few Christians and live there. I am tired of the minority dictating what the majority will do and if we had some decent judges and politicians, this would be a non-issue. You don't like it, then being the minority, too bad!!!

Guess what? The majority don't get to impose their religious beliefs or definitions of Christianity on minorities.

If you are a Legionnaire, you should, as a matter of concience, leave the Legion, rather than desecrate it with your anti-Americanism statement, since part of the definition of Americanism is "religion without bigotry."

While I think the plaintiffs are generating controversy for its own sake, you are taking their bait, proving them to be the aggrieved party by your hostile and bigoted response to the case.

Those god hating people hate Christians so much that their blood boils. Bet if it were Muslim or allia they would be not opening their clap trap mouths in fear of being detached from the shoulders that dead air space called the head. They are just about the worthless little commie's they are. God will take care of them when they breath the last with a elevator ride one way an it is not up. Last breath they take is usually god forgive me or save my sola.

When is the TAIL going to STOP wagging the dog??????

This nation was built under God - if we should forget this I believe this Nation will fall (Hard) - - - - Satan is hard at work here and we need to fight him back.

No one ever attained salvation by simply professing a belief in God. Even Jesus said just because you call on him doesn't mean He'll acknowledge you if how you treat people is informed by divine parnoia and bigotry, as though you could get divine brownie points by forcing others to conform to your beliefs.

I dare you find ONE single verse in the New Testament that holds your salvation accountable to the actions of non-believers.

I can remember saying the pledge of allegance when I was in grade school (early grades)and we said under God then. I graduated from High school in 1947,go figure. It may have been formally introduced in 1954 but used a long,long time before. My dad was in the ww1, my brother in ww2,and I was in Korean . An uncle was killed in ww1. We love this country and Thank God for letting us live in such a place. God said Without Him we can do nothing, and when this nation kicks Him out we will be able to do just that ,nothing. Think about it people!!

I feel that we should keep UNDER GOD in the PLEDGE of ALLEGIANCE. God has been a part of this Country from its beginning and I would hope that he would be with us always. We need all the help he can give us.

well if you don't believe that is your right, David but for those who do believe that is their right. Aint this Country Great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just wondering David is the Constitution of the United States wrong , This country was founded on the principles of God .Not saying you have to believe but the truth is the truth the whole reason was religious persecution, am I correct in that statement. well if you don't like it just don't say it . 'If you do then say it. and if you want to fuss about it then fuss about it that is your right . But don't tell me that what one believes is wrong. David you say what others believe is wrong then you must not be a very well minded person yourself, If you are a true veteran you would agree that their right is their right regardless of how you feel

Ignoring the fact you are ranting and not speaking facts I find your remarks crass and quite rude. Questioning the intelligence levels and stating opinions based on questionable theories or rumors won't prove any points nor win an argument. Whether you agree or disagree with the insertion of the words to the pledge is totally irrelevant based on your own statements. This by the way is my country and I too am a veteran with over 40 years of service. Hope you learn some civility.

My previous comments were specifically for Dave Burrier. If the shoe fits others so be it.

I think these people need to step back and read their history . This country was fonded on and under god so if you dont like this you can darn sure leave.

I wrote that if they don't like it too bad that "under God" is in the Pledge. My Grandfather fought in WW I, my Dad in Vietnam, and I did Desert Storm and OEF in Afghanistan. I am an American and a Soldier. I fought so that we could have the rights and freedoms we have today and for others as well. Even fought in other Countries so that they might be able to enjoy the rights and freedoms we have. I am tired of people forcing their minority opinions on the majority. If someone says Merry Christmas and you don't like it, just say thanks or nothing at all. A smile would do. Just cause you don't believe in God doesn't mean the majority should have to not say it especially when we do believe in God. Just because we have God on our currency, doesn't mean we are forcing a religion on anyone and this argument about church and state is ridiculous. If the majority likes it, then we have it. If the minority doesn't like it, then become the majority and change it, but until that happens, leave the 90% of us that do believe in God, alone. Geez, there are things I don't like and I don't make a big stink about it. I don't like people who drink, but I am not pitching a fit or suing because people drink, so why can't you just keep your thoughts to yourself and believe whatever you want, I have no problem with that, but when you want to sue over a cross, the word God, Christianity, or Judaism, then I have a real problem with that. We have a lot of other more important things in the Country to worry about and we don't need you and the ACLU bringing lawsuits to take a cross down or deny people the right to pray at football games. If they want to do it, fine. If you don't, well that's fine too, just don't be so obnoxious and trivial to try to keep us from doing it. Just be glad you can be an American and believe whatever you want. You don't see us going after those that don't believe, so leave us alone as well. Why is that so hard for you to do? You need to make some allowances for us Christians and those that believe in God. We make allowances for you. Imagine the believers in God wanting to get rid of non-believers and trying to take their right to believe as they want and express that right? That would not be right and it is not done, but nonbelievers continue to push us and push us to change what we want to say, do and believe. Putting up a nativity scene on public lands is not a big deal. No one thinks that there is a determined push to show that you should be Christian too, it is just our way to express our religious beliefs. Being a nonbeliever is fine, but don't try to change us. Put up something that expresses your feelings, but not one designed to change ours. We have tolerated everyone and their religious beliefs in this Country, but don't try to change us. It is not fair that one person decided that prayer should be take out of schools. I had a Jewish kid in my Catholic School and he did other studies when we had religion class. He didn't sue the school and he got a very good education. He didn't believe in Christ and we didn't try to make him and he didn't try to sue us because we believed. Now's the time to grow up and be an adult and a proud American and celebrate the fact that you believe like you do and so do we. The small majority should not be able to make the large minority change the way they express themselves. It is not the right thing to do and they know it. Maybe they should figure out a way to express themselves without being hateful or disparaging towards the rest of us. You can believe whatever you want, so let us believe whatever we want. Just leave us alone and we will leave you alone. Thanks for doing that for us.

I know of many people that do not think they believe in GOD, until something happens to them in life, then the first thing out of their mouth is (oh God). Quit trying to take GOD out of my life.

All: It is the right of the child who objects to reciting the Pledge to remain silent while his/her classmates recite the Pledge, which is their right and free choice. The system, affectionately called "the tyranny of the majority," is as old as our country, and is not going to change for the wants of a single child's complaint. We can imagine this action is the result of headstrong and selfish parents.
The child, if a foreign born citizen by process of its parents being naturalized. They have taken an Oath, as a requirement of attaining Citizenship, to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and learn the language (English). Beyond that the parents of this child are plaintiffs against the Oath to which they pledged their fealty, and their complaint should denied by the Court. There are several avenues open to the parents, among them, tell the child simply to remain silent, resort to "Home Schooling," renounce their Citizenship and move to another Country of their choice, to name a few.

Regards, Citizen Bob.

As a Substitute Teacher with Middle High School (grades 7 – 12), The Pledge is recited over the school PA system. Students in classrooms are required to stand and put their hand over their hear t. Some do recite The Pledge out loud; some stand and move their lips while some, have their heads bowed. In all cases, respect is very evident. When I am on duty, I make sure they all hear me recite The Pledge, which sometimes does have a positive reaction – some of the students are now saying it out loud. Some have asked me questions about The Pledge and my time in the Air Force. I sometimes tell the kids that there is nothing wrong or abnormal to cite The Pledge for any age; you have to understand it to recite The Pledge.

It is so dishearting that this country was founded on God and Country and as far as I am concerned anyone that doesn't want to learn the language or abide by the constitution should pack up and leave. Why is it, we the people of the USA have to be constantly bombarded by the few that have no respect or loyality to the founders or brave soldiers that gave their lives to protect and ensure freedom for this Great County. If you don't want to say the Pledge or Gods prayer don't! No one is forcing you and let the rest of us be in peace. Go to another country and see how far you get with all the BS and see if you are better off. My Grandfather fought in WW1, my Father WW11, my brother and myself Vietnam, and now my grandson is in the US Army. We are proud Americans, veterans and Christians and I could care less if you believe in God, you have the freedom to believe as you please and no one will question you but, leave those of us that have morals and Patriotism alone. Enough is enough!!!!!!!! God Bless America

I have my grandchildren recite the pledge as I learned it . We must raise patriots and not depend on public schools to do it for us. For God and Country Amen. Joël M. Botello

I believe that all people servicing us & protect USA should understand how powerful God is in this days and time. Some people worry about little things how about loving your neighbor, respecting the country û live in because living any where us besides United States now dangerous. Coming from family in served any many branches WWII and now we need God back in our schools and hearts and on original documents. I love being American... Lord bless those who don't understand and give strength to the ones who are still fighting overseas along with uplifting the military families at home.

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News from the World of Military and Veterans Issues. Iraq and A-Stan in parenthesis reflects that the author is currently deployed to that theater.