Law Professor: "Shameful to support men and women who have gone overseas to kill other human beings."
Whenever people ask me why I initially quit law school to volunteer to go to Afghanistan as an Infantryman, I only half-jokingly tell them I preferred sleeping on the ground and looking for the Taliban to being around the pretentious jackasses one finds at law schools from time to time. When I got back, the first article I read in the Law School newsletter was about how the first year of law school is the hardest year anyone could ever have, Well sure, except almost every year that our men and women spend in the military. In law school you generally get fed fairly regularly, don't get shot at, and don't have to pull radio guard at 2 a,m, This isn't exactly a newsflash, but there is nothing inherently difficult about attending classes and reading books. I'm not saying that to degrade higher education, but comparing it to dodging 7.62 rounds is a bit....hyperbolic.
And then along comes someone who proves my point with far more alacrity than I could muster on my own. Everyone, meet Professor Michael Avery:
The email may have been brief, but with it Suffolk Law Professor Michael Avery seems to have poured salt into the wounds of quite a few Americans, including some students at his own school.
In the five-paragraph e-mail to colleagues in response to a school-wide appeal for care packages for deployed soldiers, Avery calls the notion of sending packages “shameful”.
"I think it is shameful that it is perceived as legitimate to solicit in an academic institution for support for men and women who have gone overseas to kill other human beings" wrote Avery.
Local professor: Collecting care packages for troops is 'shameful': MyFoxBOSTON.com
For some more on this guy, you can go to the "Above the Law" blog where the writer just skewers this clown.
Somewhat ironically, the very first person to wish me a Happy Veterans Day was a buddy of mine who just happens to be a Suffolk Law Graduate. The school is going with the old stand-by of "he has a right to say what he wants."
In the long history of Suffolk University, we have embraced discourse within the framework of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We encourage free discussion; yet remain uncompromising in confronting acts of discrimination. As Suffolk's history shows, all of this can be done while supporting our mission to provide access to excellence in education to those who deserve it, not the least of whom are active duty military personnel and returning veterans, who by their brave acts have honored each of us and our nation.
Indubitably true. He also has the right to pee on an electric fence or inhale Clorox, but it doesn't make it either sensible or reflect well on the schook.
The whole thing did segue nicely with an article in the Washington Post this morning though:
The troops are lavished with praise for their sacrifices. But the praise comes with a price, service members say. The public increasingly acts as if it feels sorry for those in uniform.
“We aren’t victims at all,” said Brig. Gen. Sean B. MacFarland, who commanded troops in Iraq and will soon leave for Afghanistan. “But it seems that the only way that some can be supportive is to cast us in the role of hapless souls.”
The topic is a sensitive one for military leaders, who do not want to appear ungrateful or at odds with the public they serve. They also realize that the anger that returning troops faced in the latter years of the Vietnam War was far worse.
As a result, most of the conversations about pity take place quietly and privately among combat veterans. After his two sons returned from combat tours with the Marines, retired Col. Mark Cancian warned them that people outside the military would view their service from two perspectives.
All things being equal, if I had to chose between being back in law school, being pitied for my service in the military, or serving as an infantryman again, the choice would be easy, and I would be singing this diddy tomorrow as the sun set:
Up in the morning out of the rack
Greeted at dawn with an early attack
First Sergeant Rushes me off to chow
But I don’t eat it any how
Oh hail Oh Hail oh Infantry
Queen of Battle follow me
An airborne ranger’s life for me
Cause nothing in this world is free
Pick up your rifle and follow me.
In a big bird up in the sky,
all will jump and some will die
Off to battle we will go,
to live or die, hell I don’t know
Oh hail oh hail oh infantry
Queen of battle follow me
I look to the sky I have no fear,
My Ranger God is always near.
Oh hail Oh hail oh infantry
Queen of battle follow me
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Comments
P B Caudill (not verified)
November 20, 2011 - 4:07pm
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law professer
I have a job for this professor, scub out my septic with a toothbrush and then lick it dry
Semper Fi
JohninVirginia (not verified)
November 20, 2011 - 7:41pm
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Prof. Avery
Suffolk U's mission statement includes support for, and recognizes growing importance of, global citizenship. The school says Avery has a right to state his opinion. However, like most left wing college administrations and American apologists, I bet they would not defend his right to express his opnion if it did not parallel their liberal left wing agenda.
Glen (Willy) H (not verified)
November 21, 2011 - 1:04am
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Mr. Law Professor
Dear Mr Not so Educated. It seems that you have not given your comment much thought,as most people do. If you were in another country, you would probably have been arrested and tossed into some dark hole> As a old Vet I fought to give all the people who disagree with how the government does some things that very freedom. But like you they just blurt out something hateful and very disturbing to our way of life. It seem's that people like yourself have been around since time began. Just remember that if we had not stepped up to the plate we all would now be speaking German, or have you forgotten like a lot of people have. Just remember if our young men and women do not step up to the plate now; then you will have a 9-11 magnified by 1000. Do not think for one moment that things will get better and go away ? No if they win they will gain thousands of new minds to warp and then as they say, all $%&& will break out right in our country and many others. So go ahead say what you think; but think before you say; because you can make a fool out of your self real easy. My G ramp's who was a very bright man said( once the words have left your mouth you can never take them back.)
asd (not verified)
November 21, 2011 - 10:15am
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asdf
asdf
David McLeod (not verified)
November 21, 2011 - 10:34am
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Avery's message
As I retired Soldier of almost 20 years, I think I'm upset that a US College would hire such a person to teach it's students Law. I did a little college work while in the service and was proud that I got to attend a few classes between work, field duty, overseas deployments, and special assignments and military schools, I was in Armament Maintenance. I guess I could have gotten out, went to work for a Govt. Contractor and made a lot more money, I know my wife and kids would have been better off, but I stayed the course. I try to read most of the articles put by the Legion, DAV, VFW, and other pro military magazines. I 'm damn proud of what I did ad if possible, I would not change much.
NOW I read about a so-called Law Professor( Micheal Avery) of Suffolk Law College talking such trash about our troops, he is so lucky that I beleive in the law of this great country or I would just have to go see him and convince him of his wrong doings. This guy is injecting poison into out next group of young people, God knows what we can expect in the next 20 years. GOD BLESS AMERICA
Dwayne Hyre (not verified)
November 21, 2011 - 12:09pm
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Law Professor
To this person, that is held in high regard by his station, just say thank you to all those men and women giving you the freedom and right to think the way you do, just sa "Thank You".
John Light (not verified)
November 21, 2011 - 12:49pm
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Law Professor's comments
For 26 years I served in the U.S. Navy under a vow to up hold the Constitution of the United States of America. Under Amendment 1, Professor Avery is given the right of freedom of speech which I will continue to defend. I have friends that are pacifists who can not support killing but they support those who serve in the military even though they have moral issues with the wars they fight. All i can say of Professor Avery is there is a difference even if his learned mind can not comprehend it.
Gary Whitlock (not verified)
November 21, 2011 - 3:55pm
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law professor
I am reluctant to believe anything "reported" by GOP TV (Fox). Any other sources for this "shameful" commnet?
MOTHAX (bberry) (not verified)
November 21, 2011 - 3:58pm
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I also included the link to
I also included the link to the law schools official statement on it.
Tim Riley (not verified)
November 21, 2011 - 5:55pm
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Law School professor
He also has the right to behave like a dumb ass which he has these men and woman joined the service of thier own free will just like i did in 79" they knew what they were geting into same as i did maybe one day when he gets his head out of his fouth point of contact he will under stand these are free gifts given out of respect to them.
marty Seipel (not verified)
November 22, 2011 - 7:13am
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man protest care package
dude leave this great country where men and women fought for your freedom. your a ASS.
margaret moncea... (not verified)
November 22, 2011 - 11:50pm
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you asshole
you are about f ing stuip my husband servbed
and would go back in a heartbeat anything for our country
DomGiovanni (not verified)
November 23, 2011 - 5:31pm
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American Professor's Right to Speak His Mind
As a veteran, I agree, this professor has a right to speak his mind. He must
realize that the university also must respect the right of others in that institution.
They do have the right to speak what they believe, to raise money for troops
if they decide, to send care package to service men and women should they
choose. He does not have a right to force his opinion on anyone who won't
hear him. But I guess that is why he's an American law professor. If ever a man
was deceived by law he ate the cake. You can almost hear him choking on it.
troops do not p... (not verified)
November 23, 2011 - 6:03pm
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"Troops defend us..."
I agree with the professor and am saddened that he has been fired for telling the truth. Soldiers have done NOTHING to preserve our freedom of speech. If anything they have helped to suppress it even further.
Examples to support? Look at our policies in LATIN AMERICA, and the mid east especially. It has been the military both in policy and the men and women in uniform that have CARRIED OUT that policy in really killing and murdering others. If they are not killing and murdering others themselves, you have to be real and not ignore that then they are training other nations on how to kill and murder their own people.
If that is not enough, our military also provides intel and technology or the equiptment to further the killing and murder. Look at PLAN Colombia and the 'War on drugs' or continue following whats going on in Afghanistan. We are fools to pretend the armed services is a neutral player in the game that 'protects our freedom'.
What did those men and women do when the Patriot act came? NOTHING. What did they do when our nation put the Japanese Americans in internment camps? THEY HELPED PUT THEM IN CAMPS! Otherwise they did nothing to protect liberty there. Did they spread freedom by training more killers at the School of Americas? Now its called WHINESEC...
Look at our spending and budgets and you will see that our nations priorities have been subverted by 'National Defense' and national security. Our society has been harmed and deprived by the military because of obsenssive spending. This means sucking our economy and schools dry while sending our kids to go die off overseas or live their lives with traumas that will never be dealt with.
Protectors of our liberty. Please, dont be fooled by this idiotic propaganda.
There is a reason most of the world does not like our nation, because of our government and because of the violence our military does itself or with the other militaries of the world. There is a reason why some have trouble separating policy from the soldiers...at some point you have to hold people accountable for the decisions they make, like joining the military when it is killing our society and everyone else.
This is not only about free speech but about reality.
BWAHAHAHA (not verified)
November 23, 2011 - 6:09pm
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It's cute
It's cute when a lunatic comes here and sweet talks us, without even bothering to read the story closely enough to know that no one has been fired.
lunatic (not verified)
November 23, 2011 - 6:18pm
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loony or not
well call me lunatic....perhaps lunatics are the people that actually know their history and what our government does when it declares wars and holds sanctions on other nations. Perhaps I have looked at data that compares how imbalanced the priorities are? Perhaps I am considering that our nation and others are on the verge of economic collapse? You don't have to take my words for it...I think if anyone begins a serious search, they will find perhaps I am not all that much of a loony.
moonstroller
November 28, 2011 - 7:43pm
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The world hates us.
Most of the countries of the world like Americans. Even those that view us as Heretics enjoy the fruits of our tourism. Their children dream of living in a land like the United States.
When democracy and individual rights rule, perhaps there won't be a need for military might.
That day is not here yet.
In Israel there is a saying: "... if the Arabs put down their weapons and seek peace, there will be peace in the middle east.... If Israel put down their weapons..... there would be no more Israel..." I say that applies to the United States as well.
Before 9/11, The radical Muslims thought us weak and ineffectual. There was nothing we could do, diplomatically that would change their outlook of us. Now, they are talking about women voting and having equal partnership under the law in Saudi Arabia, Libya, Egypt, Afghanistan and Iraq as well as other Eastern countries. If we had taken 9-11 on the chin and hoped for better days, those events would never had happened. There would be no talk of democracy in the Middle East. It was not diplomacy that invigorated their minds. It was not the Educational institutions that challenged their way of thinking.
Freedom of speech without responsible forethought is Chaos of the mind. We need freedom of speech but not to promote a difference between us. We need it to ferment harmony among the Citizens, not drive us apart. To use freedom of speech to spit on our soldiers and dishonor their heroic efforts is dishonorable.
lunatic 2 (not verified)
November 23, 2011 - 6:27pm
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mistake...
It was a mistake, I realized it was another person that resigned in result: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/22/law-professor-quits-job-after-colle...
"Hate speech"? This is like when people criticize Israel policy and are called anti-semetic.
one more thing (not verified)
November 23, 2011 - 6:13pm
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Soldiers are selfish, not heroic
I forgot to add, soldiers at the end of the day join because of the paycheck, benefits, and 'career opportunities'. Furthermore there is a sort of 'hero' social status that goes with it that most of the ignorant people in society buy into. There also are the travel opportunities and when it comes to actual combat...the fight has NOTHING to do about country and everything about saving ones own self or that of their peers.
Once again, enough of this hero talk and protectors of freedom and liberty nonsense. They real protectors are actually doing things to counter what totally corrupt practices are happening in this country. This military and its soldiers is not doing a damn thing for improving this country, until they quit and join they fight for handling the actual problems of this country.
DomGiovanni (not verified)
November 24, 2011 - 12:21am
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The Old Law Professor Story
I am sure then, that George Washington was a murderer.
Thomas Jefferson was a murderer.
Benjamin Franklin was a murderer too.
Betsy Ross was a murderer.
Alexander Hamilton must certainly have been a murderer,
James Madison a killer, a murderer and a fiend.
So, too, John Jay.
Dolly Madison, after shelving her "quaint Quaker" heritage,
certainly must fall into line with those consorting with murderers.
All of the fallen in Normandy on D Day - they were murderers murdered.
Roosevelt was a handicapped murderer in a wheelchair -
one could go on and on.
How many doctors today are merely murderers?
How many contemporary presidents are col-blooded murderers,
not the great people they pretend or are portrayed to be?
How many American women are wretched murderers?
College presidents? Professors? Law students? Business associates?
Ah, murderer, that's a very big word!
I guess, to the insulting, I, too, am a murderer,
having participated very willingly, three times, in the Vietnam War.
Small people should not let such a word fall easily from the lip.
That it is often only used for men and women in the military
is a true shame.
I am afraid that some people commenting here
cannot distinguish between a calamity and a misfortune.
It is a calamity that some people must die in war,
but it is a misfortune that so few people are willing to die with them.
moonstroller
November 28, 2011 - 4:35pm
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Care packages
An educational institution sending a care package to a soldier on duty, in a combat zone, seeking to kill the enemy of democracy and individual freedom is an honor. It does not symbolize that educational institutions dishonor their allegiance to non-violence.
An educational institution that gives honors to a Judge or lawyer who prosecutes criminals with the expressed purpose of sending them to a death chamber is in league with a soldier who is commanded to take the life of an enemy of Democracy and freedom. A student attending law school may find themselves working as a prosecuting attorney.
In the end, A soldier is like a Lawyer. They are both directed to fight for justice, one with weapons of war and the other with the weapon of law. If a piece of paper can take the life of a person or deprive them of their freedom, how different is that paper weapon from a rifle or grenade?
Dr. Avery's opinion is interesting and shows a soul searching endeavor to separate those who kill to those who would willingly die to not kill.
America has evolved from a nation that supports an Army for the protection of our nation to one that supports the ideals of Democracy and individual freedom. Is there really any difference from a desire to be protected from domestic crime and international terrorism?
A lawyer has his laws, a soldier has his commands. When melted down, they are one and the same person with the same design, to protect the nation and individuals of that nation, if not like minded individuals of the world.
I fully support Dr. Avery's opinion but when push comes to shove, I expect to see him on the line soldering a weapon when the attack comes. He doesn't have to pull the trigger but he does have to show his war face and scream at the enemy. Freedom is not free; it is is payed for with blood, sweat and tears. Those who can't pay the price should, at least, support those who do.
Frank Pel (not verified)
December 8, 2011 - 4:26pm
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Professor Avery
As a retired U.S. Army veteran who is extremely proud of this country and the people who protect it, I can only say sometimes it's better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you're an idiot, rather than open it and remove all doubt.
Proud American (not verified)
December 9, 2011 - 8:01am
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What an A-hole. Its amazing
What an A-hole. Its amazing how someone of his character can make such a statement.
Freedom does not come free. Someone had to pay the price just so he could make such a statement. Drop him off in Afghanistan. Let him live there for awhile.
Dennis Griffith... (not verified)
December 9, 2011 - 3:00pm
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Comment to Mr. Avery
Who do you think ensured you that right to say what you did. Obviously, you lack a basic understanding of what makes this country great. And something else, what makes you think soldiers getting care packages has anything to do with terrorists? They should be so lucky to receive them. We don't foster terrorism by our presence. What kind of people do you think were already there killing their own kind before we got there? You belong on Jackass TV. You are as bad as the media when it comes to making asinine statements. You need to walk in our boots before you say anything stupid.
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