Supreme Court sets date for Stolen Valor arguments
This came out about a week ago, and I realized last night I never actually covered it, but the date will be February 22. Already made my travel arrangements and got my media credentials from the Supreme Court, although I think I may get there early and sit in the public seating, which isn’t hidden behind a curtain that blocks your view of the Justices. If anyone is in the DC area and wants to come with, you can meet me at like 4 am on the Supreme Court steps. I’ll even bring the coffee.
Nonetheless, United States v. Alvarez will finally decide whether lying about receipt of military medals you haven’t actually earned is a Constitutional right. ScotusBlog laid out the case in plain English:
In [Alvarez], the Court will consider the constitutionality of the statute that wins the award for best name of the month: the Stolen Valor Act, which makes it a crime to lie about having received military honors. The respondent in this case, Xavier Alvarez, was elected to the board of his local water district in southern California. He was charged with violating the Act after he falsely told the audience at a meeting that he had been awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. To defend himself, Alvarez sought to have the charges dismissed on the ground that the Act was unconstitutional because it violated his right to free speech. When the district court rejected that argument, Alvarez pleaded guilty but reserved the right to challenge the constitutionality of the Act on appeal. Alvarez found a friendlier audience in the Ninth Circuit, which reversed his conviction. After the full court of appeals declined to re-hear the case, the United States sought Supreme Court review.
In its petition for certiorari, the government began by emphasizing that the Act plays an important role in protecting the integrity of the military honors system: if people can lie about receiving awards without any penalty, it will cheapen the value of the awards for the soldiers who actually did earn them. Moreover, the government argued, the Act is constitutional: it is exactly the kind of false factual statement that, under the Supreme Court’s precedents, should receive only limited First Amendment protection.
You can read all the filings in this case at ScotusBlog, but I wanted to point out various points from Friend of the Court briefs submitted by The American Legion and others who support the law.
Professor Eugene Volokh of UCLA (who writes the Volokh Conspiracy blog dealing with legal issues) submitted a brief that provides the quick answer to how the court could uphold the act:
Consistent with this Court’s repeated observation that “there is no constitutional value in false statements of fact,” Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., 418 U.S. 323, 340 (1974), various state and federal laws restrict a wide range of knowingly false statements, and not just the familiar categories of defamation, fraudulent solicitation of money, and perjury. Most of these laws are broadly accepted as constitutional, and we expect that this Court will believe that the laws should indeed be upheld.
The best way to do so would be for this Court to (1) treat knowing falsehoods as a categorical exception to First Amendment protection, while (2) recognizing some limitations to this rule (for instance, with regard to statements about the government, science, and history) in order to avoid an undue chilling effect on true factual statements, statements of opinion, or other constitutionally valuable expression. Recognizing such a general First Amendment exception for knowing falsehoods will avoid a prolife-ration of First Amendment exceptions, and of cases upholding content-based speech restrictions under strict scrutiny—developments that would threaten the coherence of free speech doctrine and dangerously dilute the protection currently provided to valuable speech by the strict scrutiny test.
The American Legion’s amicus looked more at the historical context of laws like the Stolen Valor Act that sought to protect the integrity of the medals:
None other than George Washington warned: “Should any who are not entitled to the honors, have the insolence to assume the badges of them, they shall be severely punished.” General Orders of George Washington Issued at Newburgh on the Hudson 1782-1783.
Washington’s injunction has been enshrined in law and custom for centuries. Beginning in the nineteenth century, Congress enacted a series of statutes setting forth detailed criteria for military decorations, prohibiting the fraudulent wearing of decorations, and limiting their sale. The Stolen Valor Act is only the most recent congressional effort to preserve the integrity of military decorations by combating fraudulent claims to them. This deep and rich history counsels against clothing false claims of military honors with constitutional protection.
Regulating these lies poses no threat to constitutional values—such as freedom of the press, political speech, religious speech, or the advocacy of ideas. Rather, the Stolen Valor Act targets a specific untruth that is easy to identify and that disserves the interests of all Americans. False claims to valor have warped historical accounts of America’s military endeavors, diluted the honor due to true military heroes, and caused untold pain to service members, veterans, and their families. The Stolen Valor Act is a necessary tool to preserve vital military honors and ensure that America’s true heroes receive the quiet recognition to which they are entitled.
Now, I have literally read everything on Stolen Valor. Every case that is active, every legal brief, every moron on the net claiming he is special forces while showing pictures of him with a paintgun etc…. The one thing I hadn’t seen until recently was a case that the VFW used in their brief, which I thought was excellent, and am grateful they brought it up:
At its core, this case is about theft, not lying in general. It is undisputed that the First Amendment does not protect people who falsely claim to have received military awards in order to fraudulently receive tangible or pecuniary benefits such as tax breaks, increased government benefits, or veterans’ preferences or set-asides.
This Court likewise should conclude that the First Amendment does not protect those who wrongly appropriate for themselves the intangible, nonpecuniary advantages and “acclaim,” Pet App. 23a, that flow from the goodwill associated with military awards they have not earned...
[T]he First Amendment unambiguously permits the Government to prevent third parties from wrongfully attempting to claim for themselves, or potentially benefit in any way from, the goodwill associated with military awards, because the Government created them, endowed them with meaning, and has issued them selectively over the course of centuries in accordance with exacting requirements, and the members of the Armed Forces have consecrated such awards through their courage, dedication, and sacrifice. San Francisco Arts & Athletics, Inc. v. U.S.Olympic Comm., 483 U.S. 522, 533 (1987). Section B demonstrates that the Government’s interest in preventing third parties from wrongfully appropriating the goodwill associated with military awards is distinct from its asserted interest in preserving their value or meaning, which this Court has questioned in other contexts.
I like this argument mostly because it is the same one I have been making, although I was unaware of the Olympic Comm. case. (I don’t actually have legal research tools like Westlaw since I graduated.) I’ve argued repeatedly, including in emails with Professor Volokh that there is an actual concrete harm that comes to those of us who did earn these medals. Although not the most prestigious award out there, my Combat Infantryman’s Badge is very important to me, in fact, when I got married last year the groom’s cake was a CIB. And it’s also one that apparently every phony hero has earned. Even the lower level guys that are smart enough to not claim an award you can find online (like the MOH or Silver Star) they always go with my blue badge of manliness. None of the guys I come across with phony heroics ever claims to have been a dentist suddenly caught in a firefight. They’re all SEALS, Rangers, SF or Infantry. And every time one of these jackwagons puts the CIB on, it devalues mine accordingly.
So what is the likely result? Most court watchers (myself included) seem to think that this case will go against us, likely 6-3 or 7-2. On the other hand, 100% of ESPN analysts were certain that the Steelers would pulverize Tebow, and he managed to pull off his 3:16 miracle. (Against the Patriots I think it was Lamentations 3:16 – “He has broken my teeth with gravel; He has made me cower in the dust.”) Anyway, that is why they actually play the game, and the reason I won’t give up hope until after the opinion comes out. The court could go a number of ways:
1) They could decide that easily verifiable lies dealing with an interest like military medals are not to be afforded constitutional protection.
2) They could decide that some lies are covered, but in this case the Gov’t has a compelling interest in preserving military medals, under the Constitutional authority to raise armies and to set their rules.
3) They could decide that the law should have an imputed fraud element. (i.e. You can lie about being an MOH recipient in a bar or something, but if you try to acquire something tangible or intangible than that would be violative.)
4) Lastly, they could go the way folks seem to think they will and say that the Stolen Valor Amendment has an overbreadth problem, and suggest that Congress rewrite the statute with the fraud element actually in place. Technically they wouldn’t actually suggest that, but it would be clear. If this last happens, luckily there is already a bill in the works.
Either way, it’s why they go through the efforts, because no one knows for sure. But on February 22nd we’ll have a better idea of how they might go based on what questions they ask.
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Comments
MOTHAX
January 20, 2012 - 10:35am
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mothax[at]legion[dot]org
mothax[at]legion[dot]org
Doc Rox (not verified)
January 19, 2012 - 9:24pm
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Stolen Valor
Valor cannot, by its nature, be stolen, as it is a characterological trait. Lying has been a part of the war-fighters way of life that is age old. Sitting around the legion and VFW long enough and you will hear all kind of tales, long and bold, meant to excite or entertain or shock. It took the Creed of Roger's Rangers to make it clear that lying was not for the battlefield or the recon, but for the camp-fire. In order to make this law work, someone would have to believe you, and most of the false MOH winners I have seen simply could not be believed, and a simple phonecall exposed them as liars. Let us not waste police time, prosecutors time, and rediculous energy on such stupid things, and simply resolve as an organization to believe only those things that come with proof. In all honesty, there are very few Maynard "Snuffy" Smith's out there;( Google It--fascinating story of a ne'er do well MOH recipient.) and we mostly know who they are. So recognize how absolutely trivial this kind of prosecution is, since there are already laws against Fraud, making false official statements, and falsley wearing the MOH already. My .02.
Hward Lownes (not verified)
January 19, 2012 - 9:26pm
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So, Obama can put his Medal
So, Obama can put his Medal of Honor in the display case right next to his Nobel Peace Prize. You can't compare Vietnam with today's military. Men were drafted and forced to fight in a war run by politicians. It's not surprising the war turned into one huge cluster f**k. When I arrived at Hickam Air Force Base in Hawaii I was told the building I would be working in that used to be the barracks was the target for six USSR nuclear warheads. My job was to process the spy plane and satellite data so we knew exactly what the Soviets were up to. I never wanted a war to start. If it did I knew I only had 35 minutes left to live. Today’s military personnel are like me in that they are there because they feel an obligation to those who died defending this country so that our children will have the same freedoms we have. No one wants war. I’m currently working on getting my military records corrected. They are missing the Small Arms Expert ribbon I earned. It’s one of the least important ribbons / medals one can receive, but it’s important to me. As far as for someone wearing a Medal of Honor he didn’t earn I have two ways to deal with him. First, put him in a room full of men that really were awarded this medal. They should be able to beat some sense into this creep. The second would be to have him do community service working at Walter Reed Medical Center helping those wounded in combat. Then he’d see what a real hero is.
almoore (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 7:39am
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Just air drop them in to a
Just air drop them in to a combat zone, (parachute optional), and give them the opportunity to earn the accolades they've stolen. Seems fair enough.
Gary (not verified)
January 23, 2012 - 5:51pm
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Your Right
He should go to Walter Reed and see what real heros are. And I have the same problem small arms ribbon and two otherss. I just put on all resumes and applications whats on my 214 and leave it at that.
Gerald Pitman (not verified)
January 19, 2012 - 9:38pm
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Stolen Valor Issue
How does public commentary re. this action work? To wit, how does an old vet voice a concern with the results of the lies promulgated by Alvarez to those folks sitting at our Supreme Court? I realize they are tasked to follow the law as they see it, but their decision will surely affect the lives of millions of vets and active duty folks. So, how can I share my beliefs, my concerns with THEM regarding this case prior to their crafting their judgement call? I respect the job of our three branches but really feel left out when it comes to sharing an opinion with The Court. As an American, I shouldn't feel disenfranchised. So, how can I share with the Court my heartfelt concerns? Thanks to anyone who has a suggestion. ps. This is the first time I have been prompted to ask such help .
JT (not verified)
January 21, 2012 - 8:24am
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Your only avenue for comment ...
You can file what's called a "friend of the court" or "amicus cureae" brief, which the judges are duty-bound to read prior to the start of the trial. Without standing as a party to the suit (which I think any vet should have on the prosecution's side, but I'm a bit extreme) or a witness' subpoena, I think that just about lists all of your option. Sorry. This just isn't right; but it's the way it is.
MOTHAX
January 21, 2012 - 12:31pm
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The Supremes are slightly
The Supremes are slightly more restrictive I think on who can file an Amicus, but essentially, yeah, that's how you do it. I think for a SC one you have to have like a prelude that says the interest of the party wishing to file, and I think you have to have permission from both sides in order to file it, which I always thought was odd, but I don't remember ever not getting one in. I think you also have to be a member of the SC Bar to file it, but I could be wrong on that one too. My understanding is that anyone can apply for the SC Bar after 5 years as a member of a state bar. But, I am literally going off the top of my head on this without research, so don't sue me if I am wrong! :)
Jay R. (not verified)
January 19, 2012 - 10:17pm
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public commentary
Gerald,
I think that would take a Lawyer to file a petition. But you can write your Congressional representatives and ask them to make the Stolen Valor act stronger, less vulnerable to "interpretation". They could do this by Feb 22nd and make the whole court action moot.
John Marshall (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 12:41am
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lying about service
Not only do they lie about being something they are not, But even lie ab
out being vets. I live in Arkansas and I had to take my DD214 to the motor vehicle and have them put veteran on my license so the stores that give us a break will know we are truly vets, as many come in and lie just to get the decounts. What happened to honesty?
almoore (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 7:35am
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I carry my VA patient ID card
I carry my VA patient ID card as well as my American Legion and DAV membership cards. I also have a Disabled Veteran license plate. I like to frequent businesses that give discount to veterans, not just for the discount, but to show my support for their policy. It's good to see businesses showing their appreciation for service. Alright, I'll admit it, I go for the discount too...
Joe Coggiano (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 2:02am
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Stolen Valor Act
In order to reclaim validity the Act should only claim Medals requiring acts of valor. Otherwise, they may be faced with thousands of Law Suits every day.
A. Forgie (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 6:14am
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False claims of Awards
My feelings on this issue are strong, ANYONE who falsely claims to be awarded a medal of valor won in combat who did not face the enemy, who was not awarded such by a Dept of the Defense Department or Congressional act is stealing from those men and women who did face the dangers, who did give the last final and full devotion to duty. I most strongly feel that those who do such should be "awarded" with mandatory sentencing of being made to serve a minimum of ten years hard labor in the worst federal pen available OR to serve a minimum of four years on active duty in a combat zone bearing arms.
almoore (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 7:30am
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Yes, by all means, give them
Yes, by all means, give them the opportunity to earn the accolades that they've stolen.
almoore (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 7:28am
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Free Speach v. Fraud
This isn't free speach, it's fraud and should be prosecuted. When anyone is allowed to claim unearned military honors it calls all of our service in to question. Why bother standing up for your country when you can just pin a medal to your chest and call yourself a hero?
Kelly Connerton (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 7:41am
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Stolen Valor
How can the Supreme Court find against the Act? If they say lying is protected by free speech it will just open up a can of worms that non one should want. It opens the door to lying about anything. What ever happen to fraud claims.
"Gee sir, I was lying about owning the bridge when I was trying to sell it , but hey, I am allowed to under the First amendment< The supreme Court said I could"
Ron Ballard (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 8:52am
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Stolen Valor
There is no doubt that falsely claiming to have earned a decoration is wrong, however, I know of numerous incidents where soldiers should have received commedations but were denied for various reasons, the worst being skin color. With that being said, I think the punishment should fit the false claimants intent. If the false claim is being made for self monetary gain, or self advancement that would result in a public promotional gain of status, lower the boom on and expose the false claimant. If the false claimant seeks no personal gain of any kind, and their intent is to inspire others or to do some kind of good that reflects favorably on the soldiers that earn such commendations I would tend to be more lenient with a stern warning and a cease and decist type of approach to leave the good done go untarnished, but with the threat of embarassing exposure and possible jail time for running a con to deceive others. Most of the men and women who have won some of our highest commendations for service and valor did so by performing acts of unselfish sacrifice, often feeling they were doing what just needed to be done at the time without much forethought, and don't see themselves as heros; I think such selfless thinking individuals would agree such falsehoods need to be dealt with on a case by case basis where intent of why the false claim is being made becomes the determining factor in the handling of the claimant. If there is one thing I've learned in my years is heros and heroines can emerge from some pretty surprising sources quickly, and disappear just as fast without any honors coming they're way because that isn't why we do what needs to be done when others are frozen in place.
John Nichols (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 9:00am
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Alverez vs. U.S. Government
Mr. Alverez is a politician. So what do you expect? All politicians are liars.Before he gets a hearing before the Surpreme Court; he needs to appear before the U.S Senate for a " Cotempt of Congress" hearing. Since the Congress is not doing anything useful these days; such a hearing would make for good entertainment for the American public.
COMMANDER OF A ... (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 9:23am
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THE IMPOSTER
THIS FOR THE IMPOSTER YOUR FREEDOM
IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO WEAR THOSE MEDALS
AND ALL THEY STANDS FOR,I WOULD ASK YOU ONE THING,
GO DOWN TO THE NATIONAL CEMETARY
IN ALEXANDER VIRGINIA,TAKE THE TIME TO WALK THROUGH
THAT HALLOWED RESTING PLACE AND READ THE TOMBSTONES
AND WHEN YOU LEAVE YOU COME TO ME AND TELL ME THAT YOU
YOU DON'T CARE,AND YOU STILL WOULD WEAR THEM AND
IF YOU DO THEN YOU SHOULD
FEEL ASHAMED, BECAUSE ALL THOSE BRAVE MEN LAYING AT REST
THERE HAVE GIVEN YOU THERE LIVES SO THAT YOU CAN BE FREE
TO PURSUE YOUR LIFE IN ANYWAY YOU DESIRE,WHEN I
WALKED THROUGH THAT CEMETARY I WAS HUMBLED TO BE IN THE
PRESENT OF SO MANY BRAVE MEN.
AND THERE ARE MORE TO COME.....FOR YOUR FREEDOM.
COMMANDER AMERICAN LEGION POST 561
Warren "Skip" A... (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 9:58am
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Required proof.
Anyone who makes these claims of awards or service should be challenged to show proof, just like a photo ID for a credit card. I have my retired ID, VFW, AL, and VA cards as well as my DD-214 to verify any claims I make. If he claims the CMH, he should have been wearing it when he made the claim. After losing so many friends in combat, this is just so WRONG to me. I feel so lucky to have survived to retire and now enjoy the benefits of serving my country with honor. The actions of those who cheapen the service of others is criminal and should be treated that way.
Jon Clifton (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 9:58am
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Medals
So the court wants to see if this lying cheat is within his rights to say he earned these medals when he never saw the first line of combat? I can't believe that people who supposedly have enough intelligence to be a Supreme Court Judge has to hold a hearing on something like this. This guy feels he can claim to be awarded this medal because of free speech? Well hell then, I can say I've been awarded more medals than anyone in my county. I've been through three wars, reached the rank of General and have been an adviser to all of the Armed Services. I can claim this according to this moron when the fact is I was never out of the country, never saw the front line of any war, only got as high as an E-2 and all I ever was awarded was the National Defense Service Medal because I was in during the Vietnam War. I was a 4F from the start because of being an epileptic but I still enlisted because I wanted to serve my country.
What this guy did is so wrong. Anyone who would lie saying they were awarded anything they didn't earn is a slap in the face to the people who DID earn these medals and who DID fight and were in the position to be awarded them.
Dan (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 10:10am
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An Idea
How about the military or one of its groups develop a searchable database of military members and all of the awards they have received to circumvent this fraud? Just like our credit scores, background checks, driving records, how about we have such a program that does the same for military awards? Seems like a simple solution and it would pretty much eliminate the fraud. If it isn't listed, they never got it.
MOTHAX
January 20, 2012 - 10:13am
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Groups are trying to do that,
Groups are trying to do that, but it is an incredibly expensive proposition. It should be noted that MOH's are listed online already, and Alvarez had been claiming his for years. So the probability of it actually doing any good is serious diminished.
Rick Duncan is a pretty good example of how these people operate. When he got caught doing it, he simply changed his name, and then started claiming he was a lawyer. POW Network has a database of phonies, but it takes sometimes several months to actually get the info from the NPRC.
James A. Bowers (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 10:58am
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Stolen Valor arguments
I don't know about the Supreme court but maybe laws to have the imposter sent to the front so as to give them the opportunity to earn the award or DIE TRYING. Public flogging is to good for these vermin.
Thank you, Jim Bowers Msgt USAF (Ret)
Herb Detmer (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 11:10am
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Stolen Valor
If it is OK to claim you recieved the CMH or any military medal, is it OK to claim you have college degree when you don't? They are not the same, but both are EARNED! You don't earn a degree by risking your life, you do by earning the CMH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perry Jensen (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 12:33pm
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Stolen Valor
I have read a number of these comments, some of the authors leave me puzzled about their rationalization of the act of lying. For those of us who served we each understood that under the UCMJ, that wearing a medal or decoration that you were not awarded was a punishable offense. When I was the Chief Instructor at the Leadership School at Brooks AFB in Texas, I would ensyre through the Personnel Office that students were wearing only those items that they were intitled to wear. As the current commander of my VFW post, again I review DD214's to ensure that the individual is entitled to even be a member. The format of DD214's makes them very hard to manipulate. All this having been said for an individual to lie about having received even a Bronze Star belittles the award and those who have actually earned it. To lie about receiving the CMH is deplorable and should be a criminal offense. This type of individual has no honor and does not care that they have smeared the distinction under which these medals are awarded. However, our overly liberal court system will probably find some way to overlook the depth of this individuals misconduct, and probably invite him out to lunch for being creative.
David on the Mo... (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 2:22pm
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Alvarez
I agree with those that say this should not be before the Supreme Court but it would not be had it not been for the idiots who comprise the 9th circuit court of appeals. Being in law enforcement in this district is tougher because of these idiots who appear to have no common sense. Furthermore none of this would be happening if the vetrans and citizens of the area in which he was elected would have called bullshit when he first made the claim, but then again the liberals are as common as air in southern CA.
This guy needs to be punished and if it has to go all the way to the Supreme Court to get it right then so be it. At least the local court system got it right and got an inital gulity conviction. The 9th should have never heard this case, Period.
Jerry Jones (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 4:49pm
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Blasphemy upon the military
I think that anyone who lies about being in the military, being awarded certain medals, or anything else pertaining to military service, should be prosecuted. I am a 6 1/2 year veteran of the US Army, and it grates on every nerve in my body when I hear that someone lied about being in the military or the like.
Military personnel take pride in risking their lives to serve their country. Anyone falsely claiming to have any military service, or service related activity, should be prosecuted under military courts and to the fullest extent of military court laws.
Steven D. Dane (not verified)
January 20, 2012 - 9:55pm
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Medal of Honor
Where I live(Wisconsin) Slander and defamation of character are the same thing. Some States separate them Either way Fraud lying cheatibng stealing are alll against the law. Lets inforce it. I have the opposite problem I am no hero but I have people telling me I am a dirtbag. Lets have Veterans stick together as we are supposed to (did in service) If someone in my American Legion post lied about a ribbon/medal (There on your DD214) I would turn my back on them as they entered the room and not speak to them. I only have the Battle "E" and 3 sea service ribbons and a good conduct medal but I earned em during 30 months in SE Asia. If you wear em but never earned em you are a Cant c-nt m-ther F-cker! Peace out!
Tim (not verified)
January 21, 2012 - 11:59am
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Stolen valor act
The First amendment does honor freedom of speech but does NOT protect you from the consequences. I can yell BOMB in a government building however I may dislike the consequences.
Ronald Drinks (not verified)
January 21, 2012 - 12:24pm
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Alverez
I myself had tried for 39 years to have my military records corrected just so my two sons could see that dear old dad really did win the Bronze Star and the Combat Infanttry Badge . Four years ago Steny Hoyer presented them to me in a small ceremony . Now I have added them to my old uniform . I fully support the United States in this case as I knew the penalty for wearing an award that I did not earn .
Nick (not verified)
January 21, 2012 - 2:38pm
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Honor
Being a Veteran, I always thought "honor" is what made us. I keep my awards private and close to the heart. Let assholes brag-it does not detract form the real heros. The Supreme Court is over stepping its bounds. Free speech, even for assholes is a freedom granted by our Constitution.
Tom Bove (not verified)
January 21, 2012 - 11:11pm
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Medals of valor
I was in the 1st Air Cav in Vietnam in 1967/68. At the onset of the Tet Offensive, Ankhe was one of the many bases hit by the cong. We rushed to the perimeter at the first sound of the alert and encountered the enemy which had penetrated our base, killing the brave men of the 101st who were maning the towers. We stopped and killed every Viet cong who entered the base right there at the airfield. Our com. Sgt was injured (he was unarmed out on the airfield) trying to get back to the Green House (our base headquarters), Crash and Rescue fired on the enemy as we were fortifying the Green house. Our Exec Major was critically injured as a missile hit the Green House. Not one person waivered or hesitated to do thier job (It wasn't even their MOS) to protect the Colonel (who was still in his PJ's). When the fighting was done the only dead besides the tower personel was the Viet Cong. A short time later, myself and a few others received medals, (purple hearts, bronze stars, good conduct etc). Yet there were others who didn't get anything. If one of those guys claimed to have received a medal I would back him up. I was still getting medals after I was home (they came in the mail such as the Arm Com). Any medal I received is shared by everyone who served with me. I never saw one person not do his duty and as far as I'm concerned they all deserve medals for just being there (not just the standard 3) Congress should stay out of this. If someone is trying to get some kind of benefit for the medal they didn't recieve that is different (that is called fraud and we already have laws against that,.
Anonymous (not verified)
January 22, 2012 - 10:50am
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How about the Truth
How many people get sick and tired of having to defend yourself to non-law enforcement personnel? Now consider this, if this law stays overturned, then an amended version that will pass the courts must be passed with the intent that has been held, falsehood with a tangible effect as a result (i.e VA Disability Fraud). However, if this law is reinstated, then any person could in theory challenge any statement of valor and request your DD-214 or orders. If you refuse or cannot produce in their time frame, they could report you via an anonymous tip to law enforcement. After that, you will have to defend yourself to the legal authorities. Do any of your veterans want to do that to the point you might as well say you are not a veteran for fear of proving such a statement every time you make it?
Edmond Nadeau (not verified)
January 23, 2012 - 6:27pm
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Lying about service/medal reciept
I don't think its right for anyone let alone service members past or present to lie about their service or awards, after all we all learned in the military that this sort of thing was forbidden, what possesess ppeople to o these things I had it happen while I was in the reserves with a soldier that was supposed to deploy and never did, but he told people he had and that he also was a Drill SGT wich was NOT true but he posted pictures of himself in a Drill aht and a combat patch susiquently wasdihonorably discharged. I beleive the unit was right. He left a bad taste for vets that have gone like myself.
Edmond Nadeau (not verified)
January 23, 2012 - 6:28pm
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Lying about service/medal reciept
I don't think its right for anyone let alone service members past or present to lie about their service or awards, after all we all learned in the military that this sort of thing was forbidden, what possesess ppeople to o these things I had it happen while I was in the reserves with a soldier that was supposed to deploy and never did, but he told people he had and that he also was a Drill SGT wich was NOT true but he posted pictures of himself in a Drill aht and a combat patch susiquently wasdihonorably discharged. I beleive the unit was right. He left a bad taste for vets that have gone like myself.
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